In this episode of , Kevel CEO James Avery sits down with Lee Dunbar, Head of Retail Media at Starcom, to discuss what brands and agencies truly want from retail media networks, the ongoing fragmentation debate, and why retail media buyers should think like politicians.
Retail media networks are multiplying at breakneck speed, but the brands and agencies buying these ads often have a far clearer understanding of what works — and what doesn’t — than most retailers realize.
In this episode of Unlocking Retail Media, Avery speaks with Dunbar, who has spent 15 years at Starcom working with some of the world’s largest CPG brands — including Procter & Gamble and Kraft Heinz. Dunbar offers a rare window into how agencies evaluate retail media networks and where the industry is headed.
Here are the five biggest takeaways from their conversation.
“Retail media is a channel and a layer. How do we view this as part of someone’s marketing tech stack versus just a channel?”
— Lee Dunbar, Starcom
Dunbar points to a fundamental tension in how retail media is used. Social media became its own channel. Digital video became its own channel. Retail media is different because it functions both as a standalone advertising channel and as a data layer that enhances other channels.
As a channel, retail media includes sponsored product ads, on-site display, and increasingly, in-store screens and other physical inventory. As a layer, it involves using retailer data to target audiences across connected TV, programmatic display, or video buys that take place entirely off a retailer’s owned properties.
"I think as a standalone channel, it's started to mature," Dunbar explained. "But as something that's a layer in other channels, I think there's still some need for maturity."
This dual role creates complexity. When retail media operates purely as a channel, retailers can benchmark themselves against one another. When it operates as a layer, retailers suddenly compete with data providers like LiveRamp or traditional DSPs. Understanding which role your network plays in a given campaign is critical to positioning yourself effectively with buyers.
Amazon now generates more revenue from advertising than it does from selling entire product categories like food and beverage or toys. At this point, Amazon is effectively a media company that happens to sell products.
Most retailers can’t replicate that model — and Dunbar argues they shouldn’t try. Walmart operates roughly 4,000 physical stores across the U.S., reaching rural audiences Amazon rarely touches. Dollar General can uniquely reach low-income shoppers in markets that other networks miss entirely.
“What’s your audience story?” Dunbar emphasized. “Who do you have that maybe I can’t find elsewhere?”
Agencies don’t need every retail media network to look like Amazon. They need differentiation. They need access to specific audiences, geographies, or shopping behaviors. Retailers win by leaning into what makes their customer base unique rather than attempting to copy Amazon’s playbook with a fraction of the resources.
…consolidation would be worse.
For the past 20 years, media buyers have been conditioned to see consolidation as normal. Google and Facebook (now Meta) dominated digital advertising, and that duopoly felt simple and efficient. Dunbar argues this was the exception — not the rule.
“Fragmentation is essential to a really healthy marketplace,” he posited. “Any economist is gonna tell you that a fragmented marketplace is good for buyers.”
Media agencies exist because of fragmentation. They emerged to manage the complexity of cable TV, local broadcast, and regional publications. When the market consolidated around just two dominant platforms, advertisers lost choice and faced rising costs.
Dunbar acknowledges that some consolidation will happen, particularly on the technology side. SSPs will connect multiple retailers, and shared infrastructure will reduce redundancy. But he doesn’t believe retail media networks themselves will consolidate in the way some predict.
"Is a merchant gonna cede the other half of their search feed and experience to a company that's doing the same thing across all their competitors?” Dunbar asked. “Maybe, maybe not. I think they're all gonna wanna have their special sauce."
Regulatory scrutiny around grocery mergers makes large-scale consolidation even less likely. As long as retailers remain distinct businesses, their media networks will too—preserving advertiser choice and preventing any single player from dictating terms.
Retail media requires more stakeholder coordination than almost any other advertising channel. Buyers aren’t just working with marketing teams — they’re coordinating with sales, merchandising, e-commerce, and sometimes even store operations.
“You have to talk to so many different stakeholders and understand how to please everybody,” Dunbar explained. “By the end of this, you’re gonna be able to run for Congress.”
Because retail media sits at the intersection of advertising and commerce, every media decision impacts broader retailer relationships. Agencies evaluate networks not just on performance metrics, but on how well they support the overall brand-retailer relationship.
For retailers, success means making buyers’ political and operational lives easier, not just offering competitive CPMs.
AI agents could change shopping behavior by moving influence earlier in the purchase journey, before a shopper reaches a retailer’s site.
“There’s incentives for people to do that in order to save money,” Dunbar said. “Where does advertising fit into that? There’s certainly going to be some opportunity for suggested items or suggested trips.”
In this future, value may shift toward pre-purchase and pre-intent moments, where brands shape preferences before AI agents finalize decisions. Programmatic strategies focused on “moments of intent or like pre-intent” may grow in importance.
Still, Dunbar remains pragmatic about adoption curves, drawing comparisons to voice commerce through Alexa — an innovation that generated excitement but never fundamentally reshaped shopping behavior. AI agents may follow a similar trajectory, with meaningful impact in some categories but not others.
“I think we may see a greater evolution in programmatic around moments of intent,” Dunbar predicted. “To get folks before maybe they engage an agent.”
Dunbar’s vision for the future of retail media is simple: know your retailers deeply, beyond media capabilities alone.
For retail media networks, the message is equally straightforward: don’t try to be Amazon, embrace fragmentation, and make integration “dead simple.”
Most importantly, recognize the complexity retail media buyers juggle daily. They’re balancing marketing KPIs, sales goals, and merchant relationships. The networks that acknowledge this reality — and actively make buyers’ jobs easier — will outperform those focused solely on lower CPMs.
Dunbar summed up the opportunity clearly:
“You’re at the tip of the spear and you’re really helping their business. And we’re helping their business at Giant Eagle, not just at Walmart.”
For more insights like these, tune in to the full episode of Unlocking Retail Media, the podcast where Kevel CEO James Avery sits down with industry leaders and innovators shaping the future of retail advertising.
Listen to this episode with Lee Dunbar here.
